Supernatural: Born Under A Bad Sign

I heartily agree, Prium!
One of the things that struck me about Jo's character, especially after reading her journal, is that she is so incredibly well developed. I don't see her or Ellen as two characters in the Winchester story. I see them as two characters with their own stories to tell, and what we see on Supernatural is simply the bits of the Harvelle story that happen to coincide with the Winchester story; i.e., the Supernatural story.

I can see little Jo running around in pigtails, carefully paying attention as her father teaches her to shoot with the bow and arrows he gave her for her 8th birthday. I see her following her mother around the Roadhouse, immitating her and standing up on tip-toes in order to reach the register and give the customers their change as Ellen supervises. I see her running into her father's arms when he returns from a hunt. I see she and Ellen grieving after his death. I see Jo growing up, attentively listening to the stories "Uncles" John, Caleb, Shawn, etc. have to tell. I see the power struggles against Ellen when Jo was a teenager, and her return from college and with it return to mother/daughter power struggles. When the Winchester meet the Harvelles, we see the tail-end of those power struggles, and then we witness Jo taking out the Goo-gone and releasing herself from the apron strings Ellen had tried to superglue her too. I don't think that's where Kripke and co. meant to introduce Jo (especially considering their former plans for her as a love interest for Dean), and it is a slightly awkward place to introduce her, but it doesn't change the fact that she's a great character with a wonderful, rich past. It's because of this that I would very much like to continue to see her on the show, continue to witness her story through the eyes of the Winchesters, and, hopefully as she grows, someday see her as a love interest for Dean. I know that's not the direction that Kripke and co. have decided to take, but that door is still open a crack, and if fans continue to warm up to Jo, as they began to after "Born Under a Bad Sign," a few seasons down the road I can see that door opening wider.

And just to keep this post a little more relevent, let me just say... that scene at the bar in which Sam attacked Jo... sooooo terrifying, especially from the perspective of a young woman. I loved the cinematography and music as he tied her up though... slow motion... "As... you... slip into unconsciousness..." Absolutely perfect, and extremely creepy!

You know, I have to say, that this evil Sam thing is kind of hot.

Anyway, lets get to the more intelligent part of my comment.

I honestly cannot understand why Jo's character is disliked so much. While I can see why most people dislike her for her 'immaturity' I think that they are looking at her character through the eyes of the show...(not that that's wrong).
If you look solely at her life, you would probably respect her more for it. Perhaps it is just because I can identify with her character that makes me want to defend her, but I think she acts pretty mature for her circumstance. If your mother wanted to keep you in one place, by her side or in some school that you knew you just didn't belong, you probably would have left long before Jo did. But, I suppose it is just speculation.

Honestly, I would appreciate it if someone could tell me why they do not like her character.

Although I can see where 'Brian' is coming from when he says that not everyone that hates Jo's character is a love-struck teen, and that he has seen some intelligent answers, I can't agree. I have not seen any of these answers, and me on winter break with nothing better to do, has searched for them.

I don't think that this is the end of Jo. She has a story to her, and a pretty damn interesting one. Kripke loves the actress Alona Tal, and I think I read somewhere that she'll be back. I think once people get over the fact that, yes, she likes to hunt and she does have a knack for it, they'll start to see her as a character; not just as a love interest for Dean.

I agree with Meredith. She is way to involved with the Winchesters to disappear. I honestly think that the only way we would never see her again is if she got killed off...and personally, I think that would be a cop out.

And by the way, I do think that it was more than a coincidence that Jo, who was obviously an intended love interest for Dean, stopped becoming a love interest after a certain group of people decided to voice their disdain.

However, I do agree, that if I had not had similar experiences to Jo (minus the demon killing) I probably would not have liked her killing. She's just trying to find herself, people. And perhaps screw a Winchester in the process ;)

Any spoilers on Jo or Supernatural? please email me so i have an excuse not to write my Psych paper...ironically on intelligence.

This is probably one of my favorite episodes. I loved that Meg was back, and the fact that she possessed Sam was fantastic! I must say, Jared did an excellent job portraying evil Sam. Excellent acting and writing all around. (I loved the holy water in the beer!) I wonder why Meg has gone rogue, and I wonder when we'll see her again?

Concerning Jo, let me just say that I liked her a lot in this episode! I've heard a lot of people critisize her for the "he's possessed?!" line, but to be honest, I don't understand why people are so hung up on it. I think that question was more out of shock than ignorance, such as when Dean found out that Sam was drunk in "Playthings." Of course he's drunk, Dean! That as obvious as can be! Dean asked though, because he was so shocked that his little brother would do something so irresponsible. Jo asked because she was equally as shocked and even rattled. Besides, they needed to have a line like that for first-time viewers or fans who are a little slow on the uptake!
I think that so far as chemistry goes, Dean and Jo can definitely be in a relationship down the line, and I would eventually like to see that. In "No Exit" I definitely understand why people were saying that she was more of a little sister and that their wasn't chemistry. I love Mark Witten's writing and producing, but I have to say that with the way he wrote often wrote Jo in that episode... well, let's face it. While it's understandable, Jo, a grown woman would be arguing with her overprotective mother, arguing with parents and sneaking out of the house are the most common teenage staples! To make matters worse, Dean even gave Jo a mini-lecture about how she should treat her mother. Because of some specific instances of writing in that episode, I definitely get why so many said she was just a little sister.
However, Jo looked older in this episode, and even acted older. She's out from under the wing of dear, overprotective Ellen. She's living and learning, she's developing well, and I very much look forward to continuing to see her develop! I don't think this is the last we'll see of her. I've heard many people say that they think this is a write-off for her, but I just don't see it. Her family is still involved with the Winchesters; She hasn't reconciled with her mother; there's a dead moose on the table between she and Dean... No, I'm quite confident we'll see her again, and I look forward to it!

Ok. I don't like Jo very much either but the fact that Meg/Sam used Jo as 'bite' has been highly underrated. Meg/Sam used Jo because she knew that Dean would come running. Not because Dean sees Jo as a little sis but b/c he likes her. Jo's character does not work b/c she looks so young. How can she be Dean's love interest when she looks like his 12 year old sister.
It was good to see Jared be the bad boy, and he did it so naturally. It was also really good seeing Bobby again, I too hope to see more of his character in the future. This show gets better with every episode.

(even a 300 lb fat guy).

Just to make it clear, I meant even if a 300 lb guy was the one rubbing against Dean, not that even if the guy (i.e. Dean) was 300 lb. (though obviously something like that would happen to any guy no matter his weight).

Also I didn't mean to only get into the Jo issue. I also wanted to add that Jared really impressed me in this episode. I mean I've always thought he was good but it's not always easy to pull of evil without looking over the top or something and I think Jared played it perfectly. I enjoyed the scenes between Dean and Sam and I really liked seeing Bobby. Now there's a guy that I'd like to see again. He seems capable and it's nice to see one of John's old friends looking out for the boys (esp. since Caleb and Pastor Jim died before we saw them interact onscreen with the boys).

In response to the recap itself. The reason Sam went after Jo wasn't because she was a hunter but because she was bait. Sam says that just before Dean comes in. So that's why he went after her rather than, say, Gordon. Also, as I've never seen Veronica Mars, that doesn't have any influence on me. But I really don't like the Jo character and I would be glad for this to be her final episode. She still managed to find ways to annoy me this time such as cluelessly saying "he was possessed" and screaming after Dean when he was trying to go after Sam. As well as her trying to insist at first to go with Dean. At least she didn't annoy me as much as she did in No Exit though.

To Cyndi's response, I think it was about both things being true (both about her dad and about Dean's feelings, or lack thereof, for her). Because following her question about demons' truth-telling, was her realization that Dean wouldn't call her. So I think she woke up to him not liking her that way. Also everything the demon said about how Dean only thought of her as a schoolgirl is what Kripke himself has said in interviews so I see this as being something true that the demon said too.

To Kate, honestly it sounds like you're own want for some kind of possible romance between them is what is influencing you especially when you claim that most of the people against Jo feel that way because they're teenagers or have a crush on him. Sorry but that just tells me that you either haven't read the posts of people that don't like her or else you've completely ignored what people are actually saying in favor of your own biased interpretation. The majority of posts that have been against Jo have been very intelligent and thought out with reasons more mature than you seem to be giving them credit for.

I think that this episode would work perfectly for being Jo's final and actually wonder why you'd think that Jo telling Gordon the secret would be getting rid of her with more integrity. I'd think that people who like Jo wouldn't want to see her character become an enemy of the boys (because that's what she'd be if she betrayed them like that). In this episode though, as you said yourself, she realized that Dean didn't like her that way and she dealt with it plus we were able to get the info on her dad on top of that. Good end IMO.

They did originally intend for her to be a love interest but they obviously saw what many of the fans saw and that is that it just didn't work between them and that at most she came off as a friend/sisterly type. I even know people who did like Jo who still saw her as more of a younger sister type so it's not just those that didn't like her. Maybe it's dishonest to you but if the creators themselves noticed that a romantic connection wasn't happening then it would've been more dishonest to go through with it even if it wasn't working so I'm glad they dropped it. Because IMO it wasn't working either. Doesn't mean Kripke caved, just that he knows enough not to push an idea even when it doesn't work. We could use more show creators that pay attention like that. I'm sorry but the couple moments you cited as showing Dean thought of her in any kind of possible romantic way don't work for me either because (a) songs like that do get stuck in your head, doesn't mean you feel something for the person who put them on and (b) maybe not all women realize this but anything really could rub against a guy like that and that reaction would happen (even a 300 lb fat guy). As for seeing the chemistry as palpable in No Exit, maybe to you, but not to a good many of us. In fact, if anything that episode showed me that Dean viewed her as one of those annoying kid sisters that a friend might have that always insists on following you. So that to me pushed the sister idea though obviously I'm hoping to never see her again now.

Ok, Jo bugs the crap out of me... she needs to be a stronger character, it sucks how the guys are all badass and the girls are always lame (exception of meg) how dean said she couldn't come... if she had been a guy would it have been the same?

I'd say Jared Padalecki gets best role in this one... sweet Sam was convincingly creepy.

I think I'm ready for some episodes that tackle the main story line, not just these fillers, though i have to say i really enjoyed night shifter, born under a bad sign was just so/so

I think the "truth" Jo was refering to was how her father died not Dean's feelings for her that was the important part of the conversation not that Dean thought of her as a sister.

I don't know about everybody else, but I think the whole thing with Jo was to sort of wrap up that storyline. Especially when Sam told her that Dean looked at her like "a schoolgirl" and then she questioned Dean as to whether demons always lie. And the parting scene where he says flippantly that he'll call her and as he walks out the door she says, "no you won't". It was a way for us to know what happened to Jo, know what happened to her dad, and for us to know where things stood between Jo and Dean, all in one fell swoop.

Personally, I'm a little miffed about the handling of the Jo situation. When her character was written into the show, it was obvious that she was intended as a romantic foil for Dean. Then a vocal part of the show's fanbase decided they didn't like her (a decision I think is almost entirely based on the fact that most of them are teen girls who have a crush on Jensen Ackles) and Kripke caved into them. All of a sudden he was saying in interviews that there was nothing in it and that Jo was "like a sister" to the boys. Yeah right. Try watching Simon Said (205) and No Exit (206) again. The chemistry was palpable and it was obvious that they were setting it up as a romantic relationship. Now they're backpedaling and it feels dishonest. I can get over them wanting to get rid of the romance storyline between Jo and Dean, but they could have done it in a way that had a bit more integrity, like having Jo be the one to have betrayed Sam's secret to Gordon. That would have been the perfect out. It just feels silly for them to have Dean one moment singing REO Speedwagon and quipping that Jo clogs his pipes and the next moment try to convince us that he only ever looked at her as a sister.

OK, rant over. That said, I really did enjoy this episode. I was actually blown away by Jared Padalecki's performance. He gets a little stilted playing "Sweet Sam" week after week, but he was convincingly terrifying when he went darkside. His scene with Jo in particular I thought was great. The look of pure joy on his face as he tortured her with the story of her father's death was creepy beyond belief.

It was also great to see Bobby again, and I hope he'll be back. But was that an entirely "I've got their back" look in his eyes when Sam and Dean walked out the door? I wasn't so sure. Could he be miffed that Sam killed a fellow hunter? I don't get the idea that he wants to kill Sam now, but i think his patience could run out a lot faster than Dean's. Something to think about for the future.

Um, Meg did get away. She purged and went up the chimney once the binding seal was broken. There was no exorcism and then they made it abundantly clear when Bobby told them she was still out there and handed them charms to protect against her "getting up in you again". To which Dean snarks "Sounds kinda dirty, but okay."