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April 23, 2014

Battlestar Galactica: Crossroads, Part 1

by Keith McDuffee, posted Mar 18th 2007 11:35PM
battlestar galactica lee adama pinstripes
(S03E19) Don't you sort of have a love-hate relationship with the final episodes of your favorite shows? There's the heightened anticipation of what's typically some of the best episodes of the season, while at the same time you get that disappointing feeling in your gut when you realize things are soon coming to an end. Two-part finales are cruel.

No early podcast this week, which is a good thing for purists who want to keep surprised as each episode airs.

Random thought: If there are humans still left on New Caprica, would it be possible then that they'd be alive in some way and able to continue living? Were they reliant on most of the technology upon the ships that were forced to leave them behind, or are they as good as dead? The nuke was never set off, right?

Some of you commenters may be onto something with the whole Balter-as-Jesus thing, that Moore's intention has been for Baltar to appear and almost become a Jesus-like figure in the eyes of some of the residents of the fleet. I certainly wouldn't say that his appearance will have anything at all to do with the relationship later to Earth, though; it's just a metaphor.

Lampkin may have been right in explaining that Baltar's decision to surrender is likely the reason the human population on Galactica is *only* missing 5,197 people. I say "may have been" because I'm not so sure Roslin wouldn't have also surrendered. In their condition at that time, what choice would they have had?

Definitely an odd sight seeing Lee in a pinstripes rather than his military uniform. It seemed that Bill Adama knew why Roslin was again taking kamala extract, which is why he was moving to put a stop to the question. Still, it was infuriating for the Admiral to so vehemently try to stop Lee's questioning in the way he did.

Getting back to Lee handing in his wings, it wasn't all that a surprising move. In fact, it was inevitable that he'd want to completely step out from under his father's shadow, and since he's rather stranded within the fleet, this is probably one of the final gestures he could have made in order to clear his mind and do what he feels is the right thing by the law.

But why would Roslin not choose to go through with the same "cure" once again? Maybe she's a kamala junkie? I guess the opening sequence to this episode may lend a hint, where Sharon and she were chasing Hera. They both want Hera to be alive and safe, though their reasons may not be in sync.

As for the music that Tigh and Anders are hearing, all I can say is that it's definitely an interesting new twist. I have read some of the unavoidable (for me) spoilers out there regarding this particular detail of the finale, and I'm still not quite sure what to make of it. Obviously only select people can hear it, but why?

Definitely a step in a better direction with this episode, and the case of Baltar is much better than I'd thought it could be already. One more episode, everyone!

Current fleet population: 41,399

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Tim McCleese

What a broken way to end a promising discussion. I would have embraced any response save the petty, tactless, uncalled for, remark on Boomer. But I must admit...if your comment was in response to my earlier remarks of my concern for the # eight cylons (in post# 50).....then it was a stroke of brilliance!
Tit for tat as they say. Enjoy your little victory.
I have only myself to blame. It was my own misjudgement, in thinking you were interested in a serious discussion (with me) on a challenging question.

One final thought. Don't take my disapointment seriously, my clever friend. In fact, I am in your debt for teaching me a valuable lesson. Henceforth, I will do my best not to waste....your valuable time.

March 23 2007 at 4:07 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
thesoze

just saw the finale - what a doozey - yall gonna love it...I can't talk about it though but great!

March 23 2007 at 1:04 AM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Dorv

So where is the line? How many Cylons (or Borg, or Nazis) is an acceptable amount to kill to protect your race? 30%? 50%? Will the Cylons ever stop trying to destroy humanity (More likely than the Borg, I'd say)?

You've definately got me thinking, but at the end of the day, I just hate Boomer, so I say nuke them all!

(My very obvious defense mechanism for I'm at work, and can't spend the time to mount a counter)

March 22 2007 at 11:19 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Tim McCleese

Dorv:

Admittedly, your argument is strong, when you cite the human casualty figures. Ironically, there was a similer scenario with the Borg you speak of in Star Trek TNG. There was a situation that had Picard with the power to eradicate the Borg, but Picard refused as per my own position on that question. I don't remember the episode, but your mentioning the Borg made me recall it.

You call the cylons clones. But what are clones? If you define a clone as an exact replica of another person, then there are no real clones among the cylons...only individuals. Recall Plato's "Republic" when the question was..."Is the city...like a man"...Each city has its own avenues, streets, and building layouts, etc. And the the individual human (and cylon), also differ from one another in every category from a favorite color, to their taste in the opposite sex. Each human (and cylon) has their own idiosyncrasies, their own fears, and their own dreams. Cylons are only duplicate in the physical form.

I'm assuming that since you consider the cylons robots, that disqualifies them from sentient status. Borrowing again from Star Trek, would you consider Data...a sentient being? In the episode "The Measure of a man", it was determined that Data was a life form. It is "awareness" that should be considered as to whom is sentient. The awareness that when a person excels he feels pride and when he sins he feels remorse. It is more than the ability to measure Calculus or balance a chekbook. It is the complexity of the sum of the mental and emotional experiences of each individual, that makes him an aware, breathing, thinking, life.

Again, your point with the casualties is a strong one, and a bit of a problem for me. The best answer I can give you Dorv, is one that may be the most important difference between higher intelligence and the lower creatures. There is no greater test of the mettle of human worth than the ability to be merciful in the wake of a terrible injustice. Many religions, including christianity, champion this ideal most of all. Destroying the cylons would have enabled the humans to SURVIVE knowing they did what they had to do. Showing mercy to the cylons would let them LIVE knowing they did what they chose to do.

I understand your attitude towards moralists Dorv, and I assure you that I'm not saying your view is an unethical one. No....and again no. On the contrary, just because I don't fully agree with your point does not mean I don't understand it. The cylons committed a terrible act and they should earn their own cross to bear for it. Do I think I will change your view? No again, but I do hope to make it a little more difficult for you to be as fast on the trigger. Although tempting, the rationale that "Since the cylons are not human they don't count" is merely a sub-concious defence mechanism to make things easier.

So if you must be determined to favor total elimination of the cylons, then let it be without any allusions on whom you are destroying. Let it be done with the conscious acceptance of the fallout of that decision.

I apologise for being so long-winded here but this topic was not one I could convey my thoughts in a paragraph or two. And heck, sadly we are in the final orbit of the season anyway, so I hope you may humor me a little. Thank you for allowing me to participate in some issues you find important.

ps: Hope you are feeling better cress-d!

March 22 2007 at 5:02 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Dorv

I don't know, Cress-d, there's an argument out there that the show is better when the seasons are shorter, and they can focus on the stories a bit more...

I think its good, as I've liked every episode, but I'm just saying...

March 22 2007 at 2:53 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Ro

I think it was interesting to note the exchange of the imaginary Baltar and Caprica 6 this episode...in the past the imaginary Baltar and 6 had helped their person with top-level insights about people, how they should interpret peoples comments/actions, or how they should handle a situation...but this ep, Baltar actually told Caprica 6 about Tigh killing his wife...and it was apparent that NO ONE knew this...so how would the imaginary Baltar know an actual secret fact like that? I haven't read any spoilers, but here's my theory... Both the imaginary Baltar and imaginary 6 are either the same entity/entities as the non-Leoban that spoke to Starbuck in "Malestrom." Caprica 6, Baltar, and Starbuck are all part of some master plan that is supported by these entities/gods or whatever...Ok, I'm done...

March 21 2007 at 10:54 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
chris w

Just heard that the FOURTH season of BSG is now up to 22 episodes instead of 13. If this is true.....PRAISE THE GODS!

March 21 2007 at 9:31 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Dorv

Tim-1: Wow... You made my words sound so much cooler than me, "...they seek to overcome what they despise in themselves." Though, I kind of embrace my flaws and accept them. If not, I would go to the gym more.

Ok, Tim-1, so here's a counter hypothetical (And, unfortunately, half "too-geek" for what I normally try to portend when I'm on these boards): Would the destruction of the Borg be as morally incorrect? First off, in my eyes, the complete destruction of the Cylons is more about killing millions of clones of 12 individuals. Secondly: THEY'RE ROBOTS! And Third: The Cylons have already eliminated 51 billion (I think that's what Moore mentioned in the podcast) humans. If I were Adama/Roslin, and I thought that a response in kind was the only way to protect the 50,000 or so remaining safe, it might be a worthy trade.

March 21 2007 at 7:21 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Tim McCleese

Ah...the wonderment of spoilers. I suppose I'll never understand it. What is the fascination in knowing a programs unfolding before one watches it. It is the joys of the journey, not the trip-ending destination. But I'm not slamming those who like them...just my own pet peeves. Heck, I don't even watch those little pre-episode spoilers.

When Dorv wrote "I see humans defined by their flaws, with the positive being overcoming them" I thought it was interesting. Because the struggle in mastering our inner failings goes not only for the individual protagonists, but for human-kind as a whole. Many of the controversial issues in BSG, are a reflection of real-life struggles and moral dilemmas that affect our own world. If the best and the brightest, are the decision makers...the decider of destinies, then it is upon those persons that the greater responsibilities for future conditions of humanity are hinged. BSG offers that vicarious experience, of awakening in us..our own questions of morality.

Dorv: On Helo's killing of the cylon prisoners:

Try looking at it this way....In any war in the earths past, what would historians say of a nation that killed every last soul of the opposing country? Every child, every old woman....everybody. I am not trying to low-hit you in setting you up to defend THAT (I know you're a good guy), but just for academic purposes, I'm trying to defend Helo's point of view. You can argue apples and oranges in that the cylons are not human....but so what? The definition of intelligent life is not necessarily a corporal make-up. It is in the heart and mind that fosters the awareness of the independent concepts of morality, mercy, and constructive thought. In the end the cylons are not so different than the humans. They struggle against the most formidable enemy that they can face..themselves. They do what you, Dorv...so elegantly point out...they seek to overcome what they despise in themselves.

And you must remember an extremely crucial reality. Boomer was out there. Boomer and all those # eight super-babes. There is no way that Helo or anyone in their right mind could let them pull the plug on all those # eight cylons. That would have been the most egregious crime in history.

March 21 2007 at 4:43 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Dorv

cress-d: Nice to have you back. Unfortuantely for you, we've got this nice nine month hiatus coming up... Wait, what am I saying... Unfortuantely for all of us!

Ian: (My arguement trends a LITTLE spoilerly at the end, so beware) I guess I'm just much more of the cynic. I see humans defined by their flaws, with the positive being overcoming them. Apollo outed Roslin because he was goaded into it. Helo killed the sick Cylons because he thought he had the moral authority, when his actions caused the deaths of countless humans (Granted, I just opened up a whole other can of moralistic and ehtical worms, on the whole 'Cylon a human?' question, which I'm sure Tim-1 will jump in on). Who else can claim the moral highground? Gaeta possibly, but talk to me in a week. I guess I just don't see Apollo in the same light, as I thought what he did this week was a not a morally conscience act, but one that did nothing but hurt people (Roslin) for little benefit for the trail (Descrediting her testimony). Her testimony wasn't THAT damning. Again, I feel that he was just trying to stick it to daddy dearest.

March 21 2007 at 12:08 AM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply

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