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October 6, 2015

Lost: This Place is Death

by Jonathan Toomey, posted Feb 12th 2009 7:36AM

Daniel Dae Kim(S05E05) "Um... he's Korean. I'm from Encino." - Miles

The beautiful thing about Lost is that there's never two bad episodes in a row. That's not to say that "The Little Prince" wasn't good, but it certainly wasn't what we've come to expect. It was just too slow. Not the case this week - "This Place is Death" roared back and didn't let up once during its 60 minutes of perfection.

After last week's revelation that Jin was indeed still alive (Was anyone actually surprised by this?), the attention immediately shifted from him to the people who rescued him - Danielle Rousseau's research team. Fans (myself included) were furious when Danielle was killed so nonchalantly last season, mainly because we still had so many questions about her backstory and history on the island. Wish granted.

While Jin's initial shock wore off pretty fast once he found out from Danielle that it was 1988, I still couldn't help but laugh. Here's a guy who's now spent months trying to learn English and he ends up being stuck with a bunch of French people. That being said, he speaks English a helluva lot better than when we saw him last. Anyway, Rousseau's team had been following the signal being sent out from the radio tower and Jin agreed to take them to it.

On the way there, the smoke monster hit and from there on out, everything Danielle told Sayid in season one checked out. Nadine was the first victim and minutes later, we finally found out how Montand lost his arm as Danielle also mentioned in season one. Although, it's probably more accurate to say that Montand's arm lost its body. Smokey dragged him into a crevasse on the side of a giant temple and Brennan, Lacombe, and Robert all went after him while Jin and Danielle stayed behind. Then there was a flash.

Jin, alone and confused, saw Montand's arm still on the ground but slightly decayed. So it appeared that he only jumped maybe a few weeks or so into the "future." He stumbled back to the beach to find a camp and the bodies of Lacombe and Brennan. He then witnessed Danielle shoot Robert, her love and Alex's father, in the head because he had "the sickness." Danielle saw Jin, but another flash saved him and he finally joined up with Sawyer and the other left-behinders.

  • Robert spoke very knowledgeably about the monster. He somehow knew that it was a security system for the temple. So how did he know that? Did the smoke monster somehow possess his mind? Did the Others get to the three of them in the temple and brainwash them? Something was off because he tried to shoot Danielle and kill his unborn child. With all that in mind, I think it's safe to assume that this is the same temple that Ben told Rousseau to take Alex to after Jack called the freighter. Based on this experience, it would explain Rousseau's apprehension to the idea.
  • Did you notice that smoke column rising from the sky as Jin approached the camp? Just as Rousseau said, The Others are coming for Alex (as soon as she's born) just as they did for Walt in 2004.

After some laughs and embraces, Jin's reunion subsided and things progressed quickly. Charlotte explained everything they knew - the flashes, John's plan, where Sun was - to Jin in Korean. They began to head for the Orchid station and the flashes began to happen much faster, sometimes only seconds apart. Juliet and Miles began bleeding again and Sawyer began to as well. But Charlotte? She was down for the count, prattling off incoherent conversations that made sense to her when she was a child ("Turn it up, I love Geronimo Jackson!) just as Theresa Spencer did.

The rest of the group trudged on to the Orchid and Daniel stayed with Charlotte to comfort her. Her memories of childhood on the island become clearer (she even told Locke about an alternate entrance to get to the Frozen Donkey Wheel) and she recalled that her mother left the DHARMA initiative when Charlotte was young. They moved from the island and whenever Charlotte asked about it, her mother told her it wasn't real. Charlotte's goal was to find the island and it's why she became an anthropologist. Then she had one more memory. Once, as a young girl, a crazy man who scared her told her to leave and never come back. If she ever returned to the island, she would die. Charlotte was convinced this person was Daniel. Then she died.

  • Whoa. Key thing here? Assuming Charlotte was right (I see no reason for this to be a red herring) and it was Faraday who gave her the ominous warning in the past, then why did he seem so dumbfounded? He looked shocked and didn't remember the incident.
  • It creates a chicken or the egg scenario. Which came first - Daniel's warning or Charlotte's death? Presumably Charlotte dying came first and at some point during this season, they'll jump to the 70s and DHARMA will be in its prime. We already know Dan was there for the Orchid excavation.
  • But it still creates an inconsistency. How could Charlotte have had that memory if it hasn't happened yet? Unless it has. Daniel's mother was on the island in 1954. Perhaps Daniel was born then, the island jumped at some point and he ended up in the 70's, much younger than he should be? Perhaps he's suffering from the very symptoms he's diagnosed?

Locke's crew finally made it to the Orchid just in time for another flash - to a time when the Orchid wasn't built yet. But Charlotte's info proved useful and a few hundred feet away, John found the well she spoke of. He said his goodbyes. Juliet thanked him. Miles and Sawyer were still confused as hell. Jin, however, had a request thanks to Charlotte's "this place is death" warning: don't bring my wife back and tell her I washed up on shore dead. He gave her his wedding band as proof. Locke promised he would and descended into the well. Another flash occurred and everyone above ground was suddenly looking at just the rope John held, suspended in the ground. With the well gone, Locke fell into a cavern with the wheel and busted up one of his legs really bad. Christian/Jacob showed up and told him what to do. Locke spun the wheel and his life as Jeremy Bentham began.

  • Jacob told John that he was supposed to have been the one that moved the island. He seemed mildly pissed that it had been Ben that did it the first time and even ridiculed Locke for listening to him. So what's Ben's goal? Seems part of it was to at least try and win back Jacob's approval. Maybe get his "job" back?
  • It's important to note that Jacob said specifically that John needed to bring all his friends back - so is that more than just the Oceanic 6? Desmond too I assume?

As for the O6, their action picked up where it left off last week at Slip 23 down at the pier. Sun approached the group with her gun, taking aim at Ben. He told her he had proof Jin was alive and that they could go back and see him. Upon hearing of his plans, Kate and Sayid shared a collective "no F'ing way" and took off, leaving Jack and Sun to tag along and see this "proof." Ben took them to Eloise Hawking's church. Desmond showed up as well and the reunion was brief as it became clear he was there for the same reasons. Ben gave Sun Jin's wedding band and she agreed to return to the island. Inside the church, Ms. Hawking seemed unconcerned that not everyone was there and that they could get started.

  • Ben is so smart. If we assume that Locke kept his promise to Jin, then Locke would've told Ben that Jin was indeed dead, using the ring as proof. With Locke/Bentham dead, Ben took the ring and used it to argue the exact opposite. I'm guessing he actually has no idea.
  • During the ride to the church, Ben told Sun and Jack that they would be thanking him if they knew what he had done to protect them and their friends. I'm guessing that isn't a mind game. Ben wants this to happen too bad and it isn't far off to suggest that maybe Ben has been protecting them all in some way from Widmore because he needs them.
  • This entire season we've heard endlessly that everyone needs to go back. So why was Eloise so calm to get things going with only four of the eight (I'm adding Desmond and Bentham in for now)?

Final thoughts...

  • Is Desmond going to go back with everyone? It seems that way now. Ms. Hawking is presumably going to tell him he has to.
  • Jin's early time flashes with Rousseau were a little annoying to me. Yes, I wanted to know as much as possible about Danielle, but the flashes being so close together seemed to serve just that purpose. It didn't feel organic. However, we later learned that the flashes were happening closer and closer together, so maybe it wasn't such a stretch.
  • How exactly does Jacob work? Does he just take someone's image? Or does he actually possess them, similar to what I suggested earlier with Montand and Co.? I ask, because even though Jacob told John all his plans, right at the end, Christian slipped through with the request, "Say hello to my son."
  • Is there anything Dan can do at this point to save Charlotte? She obviously didn't heed his warning as a child.
  • One more question - what did Dan mean when he said that Locke's plan made empirical sense? It seems like he's suggesting that the problem is far greater than they know and that bringing back the O6 isn't all that's required. It may not even be required at all.

Here's the official release for next week's installment, "316." See you back here in a week!

"316" - The way back to the island is revealed to members of the Oceanic 6, but there's trouble ahead when not all of them wish to return, on "Lost," WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 18 (9:00-10:02 p.m., ET) on ABC.

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steve probst

It looks like Eloise is "Eli" the woman who took Danial to defuse Jughead, That's why she looks familiar to Danial. She's his mom.

February 18 2009 at 8:34 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply

Has it been conclusively established that Christian Shephard (ghost or whatever) is Jacob?

February 17 2009 at 12:44 AM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply

This may be a dumb question, but we haven't seen Eloise Hawking before in this show, right? It's just, I've seen her in so many things, I can't remember if I've seen her on this show before or if I'm just remembering her from something else.

February 16 2009 at 7:04 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
1 reply to Jamie's comment

I think you bring up a good mystery here, but I must say you should revisit some old Desmod episodes. Thats where the foundation is laid for alot of the time travel stuff, and clues about Eoise. Desmond centered episodes just kick ass in general anyway...but I digress...
The first time I remember seeing Eloise is when Desmond is thrust back in time (the first time... I think) after he turns the failsafe key and the Swan implodes. He wants to do things different this time and buy Penny the ring instead of bailing on her. Eloise tells him no, thats not what you're supposed to do...destiny has a way of course correcting...and all that. But how the hell did she even know who Desmond was, and what was she doing working in that jewlery store...and that far back in "real" time Desmond hadn't even been to the Island, hadn't even made plans to sail around the world, hadn't even approached Mr. Widmore about marrying his daughter yet. Very strong forces must be at work here, guiding him to the Island since his early days. I wonder if Eloise time traveled back to meet him at that point, or, if that far back, she already knew who he was. And has anyone noticed she is doing all that stuff with the pendulum and the old Apple II computer relocating the Island in the basement of a church. This has made me wonder if the Others are in with some kind of religious/secret society type people. Like Illuminati or Templars are going to be tied in somehow. At least maybe some other generic ancient order hunting for or protecting the Island...
I would love to hear anyone's theories on this...especially before tomorrow when more is revealed about the enigmatic Ms. Hawking

February 17 2009 at 2:21 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply

Nice discussion guys! Im starting to think that the oceanic plane did crash in the ocean and everyone did die. BUT maybe the losties are in a "alternate" reality where somehow the island has them alive as opposed to the other reality of them being dead. As for someone saying Ben killed Locke, this could be true as another poster mentioned Ben might have turned the wheel in the temple to get back in jacobs good graces. Him killing locke means he wants to be the "good child" to jacob being as HE brought everyone back. Dont mean to drag on, but those that mention the show is crawling, I think you just got used to how fast paced season 4 was with the writers strike. Anyway, this is a great discussion!

February 16 2009 at 12:38 AM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply

Yes, I have another unsolved question... What happened to the children from the tail section?

February 15 2009 at 9:06 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Rich Dahlgren

perhaps you've heard of a bank being robbed?

February 15 2009 at 12:20 AM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply

this may have been brought up already so i apologize if it has. did anyone notice the name of the carpet cleaning company on bens van:


mix this up and you get:



February 14 2009 at 11:03 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply

something bothers me about the faraday/charlotte relationship... why no kissing at all?
im sorry, but if i confessed to being in love with a woman who was slowly dying, i would go for at least one goodbye kiss
that would explain family ties between the two... probably not father daughter, cause thats just too weird, but i like the idea of half-siblings or something like that

also, didnt it seem that the temple was pretty close to the beach? it seems as if the oceanic survivors would have found it by now...

finally, christian shephard is like obi-wan in star wars (i know, lame reference)... but just like in star wars, he comes back giving important messages (from what i remember), yet keeps his old memories

just some thoughts i had :)

February 14 2009 at 5:08 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply

Charlotte left the island with her mother and moved to England, hence her accent.

Daniel Farraday doesn't have an accent, yet his mother Eloise Hawking does -- a British accent, like Charlotte.

Charlotte and Daniel don't look anything alike, so I don't agree with the "Daniel is Charlotte's dad theory."

However, if Eloise Hawking is Daniel's mom, and she is also Charlotte's mom, then Charlotte and Daniel would be at least half-siblings.

February 13 2009 at 11:03 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply

Yeah...Daniel didn't jump to the Dharma peroid yet to tell Charlotte not to come back to the island yet...but apparently it was something he was always destined to do because she remembers it !
*no altering of the original timeline even though we find
out about it BEFORE Daniel actually does it
Yeah...When Daniel went to Desmond with his message about finding his mom...he changed the timeline...so Desmond "remembered" the meeting in a dream in Desmonds own PRESENT....
*original timeline CHANGED
WHY didn't Desmond remember this from the time it happened, that fateful day at the Swan Station door ???
One time travel theory would suggest that as soon as Daniel changed the timeline an alternate future would have been created where Desmond always remembered from the time of the event, and the alternate original Desmond would never know. This is apparently no the preposterous hypothesis we're working with. Only one reality. And personally that suits me just fine.
Desmond was living the original timeline up to the present, when Daniel traveled back from "the present" and gave him the message. So Desmond could not have remembered it any sooner than the present, because untill the present Daniel had not gone back to the past.
Has this been exhaustively dissected enough yet ?

On another note was anyone supprised to know that the "sickness" of the French Team wasn't from coming to the Island on the wrong bearing or any other obvious conclusion. They seemed to be almost possesed after being under the Temple... Is that what turns you into an "Other"... And how cool was it to finally get a glimpse of the mysterious Temple... and the ruins at the Well, which seem to be from the same time period, and also similar to the riuns beyond the secret room under Bens house where he summoned Smokey. Will we ever jump back far enough to see these Ruins with their original inhabitants ? Ancestors of the "Others" maybe. Four toed ancient aliens maybe ! There is so much great stuff going on right now, that we shouldn't be bickering over semantics.

February 13 2009 at 3:49 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply

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