"Back on Earth, the warning signs we got, it looked different to each one of us. I saw a woman. Tory, you saw a man. Funny, no one, no one else could see them. Galen you thought...you had a chip in your head."

Anders, No Exit

"Back on Earth, the warning signs we got, it looked different to each one of us. I saw a woman. Tory, you saw a man. Funny, no one, no one else could see them. Galen you thought...you had a chip in your head."

Anders, No Exit

Who is Baltar?

Did anybody else pick up the fact, from Deadlocked, that Cylons MAY have to be in love to reproduce?

I read on syfyportal.com that a source had said that the original hybrid in Razor was supposed to be Daniel Greystone from Caprica.

It makes sense they were protecting him as their creator or one true god, maybe that was the ressurection colony that they nuked. Plus remember in razor those cylons were special protectors of that hybrid.

If Ronald Moore did not lie about Daniel being in Caprica, he can't be Daniel Greystone because he exists before the creation of the cylons and the cylon war, Daniel was created after the cylon war. I think Daniel #7 was named after Daniel Greystone, their god/creator...#7 being god's number.

During New Caprica, the writers hadn't thought of the plot line the way it is now. So in the movie the plan they're going to go back and reconstruct the story from Cavil's POV as if the whole plot line had been planned with him being the mastermind.

I have just seen "Last Exist" for BSG and I have to say it sucked BIG time how this all came together. I am less than impressed with the big reveal of Ellen Tigh being that final Cylon and when we jump into this episode, we see that how backstory that supposedly had happened several years back. The whole conversation between Ellen and John reeks of Bladerunner's Roy Batty and Dr. Tyrell. I had expected John at one point to say, "All those moments will be lost like tears in rain." Come one, BSG writers this should have been one of those OMG moments but rather it turns out a big huh?

read more at http://monsterscifishow.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/wtf-what-the-frak/

You are correct that they didn't hand Baltar over... But Cavil WANTED to... He also wanted to shoot Baltar on New Caprica. I'm not saying that he knew exactly how it would transpire, but he knew it would be unpleasant for Baltar.

By your own calculations, however, how did Cavil know that any of them would be able to escape the holocaust of the 12 Colonies in the first place? You act like New Caprica was where all the action was. But how was he certain that all 5 originals would be saved? Clearly the implication is that he put Ellen on the ship she escaped on, but what about the others? Was Cavil directly responsible for all that?

I also think it's possible that they'll use #3 to find the fleet. They can certainly get to Earth, no problem... from there they might be able to use her to pick up the trail... I doubt we've seen the last of D'anna.

dbchan:

Good point on Cavil's possible motives. While I cannot forsee the interworkings of Cavil's complicated mind, I hope I will be forgiven when I base my faith in Boomer's inner core of goodness and integrity. Anything is possible with the writers of BSG as we all know by now, but I don't think Cavil needed Boomer to lead him to the fleet. For one, how would Ellen even know where they were? And Cavil's rage was just too convincing as he was preparing to vivisect Ellen. And Boomer....like Athena and the eights line....are the flower of the cylon race.

ohhh my aching head!

This is what I've worked out about the cycle. "All of this has happened before and will happen again", with a few guesses as to what will be revealed. All the planets are generic. No need to assign names. Every planet will eventually play every role once. Current home world, revered world of origination, refuge world, new Cylon home world.

After leaving the planet where they were created, Centurions establish a new home world.

Newly arrived outsider Skin Jobs with the help of Centurions create a new generation of Skin Jobs and give them resurrection.

The Centurions led by the new Skin Jobs nuke the Centurions planet of origination.

Many people on the planet of origination flee to create a new home but fail having sought out a previously nuked planet. A few others learn to resurrect and leave to warn "the next cycle".

Back on the Cylon home world, the Skin Jobs begin procreating naturally, effectively becoming human.

In time resurrection and Centurions fall out of use and the Cylon side of their history is forgotten.

The 5 outsider Skin Jobs journey is remembered in history as a mass exodus.

Through the ages the 5 outsider Skin Jobs models plus the 7 new Skin Job models become mythic legends and are revered as the "Lords of the Previous World". BTW, the previous world named after the home world of the 5 outside skin jobs.

Much later, the naturally procreating Skin Jobs, now believing they are human, re-invent Centurions.

Centurions go to war with the humans.

Centurions leave to establish a new home world.


Under this scenario, the Cylons of Earth wiped out Kobol.
The 12 colonies would have been established by 5 skin jobs from Kobol plus a mass of Centurions from a different cycle. That culture developed into what we know as the humans, when actually everyone in the series is a Skin Job in one form or another. The new home world of the Centurions who left the 12 colonies and created the standard 7 skin jobs, will eventually have a human population who revere the "Lords of Earth" named after the birthplace of their final 5. And eventually some large group of humans will seek out the 12 colonies as a refuge from their own Cylon holocaust and be disappointed. Every planet will eventually play every role once. Current home world, revered world of origination, refuge world, new Cylon home world.
Rather than being a linear timeline, it's more like a grid with no beginning and no end.

Suggesting Baltar isn't #7 because of how Cavil treated him on New Caprica is hardly compelling evidence... I mean, based on how they were treated on New Caprica, would you have suggested Saul or Ellen were Cylons and known to be Cylons by Cavil?

If Cavil is trying to force understanding on what he sees as faulty machines trying to be frail humans, why wouldn't he treat Baltar the way he did? Why wouldn't he have wanted to hand Baltar back to them to go on trial or be executed? If Baltar is #7 and favored by the originals, then the humans putting him on trial and executing him would've been wonderful from Cavil's perspective.

There's nothing that has happened that suggests either way which is true... but there's also been nothing to suggest either way that one is false.

However, if Baltar isn't #7, what's the explanation for the angels in their heads? Why do all of them appear as numbered Cylon models except the one in Caprica's head?

Because Cavil argued with Baltar means nothing... he de facto raped his mother/daughter... why dealing with Baltar as he did precludes Baltar's Cylon nature, I don't know.